Comments on: Social Work: Low Pay, High Stress

By: Alternative Perspective

Alternative Perspective — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:46:50 +0000

Good afternoon,

I am not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but I have been thinking a lot about the administration and the MBA comments.

Currently, my state is going through a major budget crisis and my organization is about to have a second round of layoffs. We are doing much worse than many other local behavioral health departments because of the poor decisions made by my boss….an incredibly hard working social worker and great therapist (years of institute training).

A skilled LCSW was selected to run a business; she has ZERO business training and has run the center headfirst into the ground.

***Question: would we let an MBA, with no social work training, be a therapist?*** NO! Why then, do we allow social workers with no business training to run agencies? Shouldn’t administrators be trained in effective business models/strategies?

There is a major need for social workers with business sense to step up and fill this growing need.

Oh, and happy 2010,
AP

By: Stephanie Rakoczy, MSW, LSW

Stephanie Rakoczy, MSW, LSW — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:30:28 +0000

Linda Lipscomb-
Trying working in a child welfare agency with an MSW and LSW-starting out at $20,000 a year and after 6 years working there making about $25,000 (with on-call/overtime money). You wanna talk about burn out and secondary traumatic stress!!?!!? That’s on top of the fact that along with the fact that we are doing social work, we have to carry the hat of soooo many areas of the field. I agree with many who say, we got into this field knowing that we wouldn’t get rich, but it’s not right when you are working 2-3 jobs just to support your family after you got your graduate degree…or making only above what the poverty line is (thus not allowing you to qualify for assistance in the state of PA) which is a whole other cluser f*$# of system besides child wefare!! People need to take more effort in advocating!

By: Robin, LMSW

Robin, LMSW — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 02:52:38 +0000

What was I thinking?
I am seriously in a social work job where I work 10 + hrs. a day and take paperwork home just to try to make sure “the “state” doesn’t come down on the facility. Management seems to have no clue how hard we work. I can’t believe I thought getting my master’s degree was going to give me the quality of life I so want, for myself and others.
I tell ya, I heard a joke once that a doctor retired to sell t-shirts on the beach in Cancun. That is sounding pretty good right now.

I wish you all well.

By: N.B.

N.B. — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:37:56 +0000

Great points. I am trying to get into Federal Government. I just have one comment about respect. I am first and foremost a human being so if anyone disrespects me I will put them in their place. I don’t care what profession you are working because nobody has the right to disrespect me. I don’t care how much you make and how many degrees you have. You do not have to put up with anyone disrespecting you whether you are a Social Worker or any other profession.

By: Barbara, BSW

Barbara, BSW — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:20:37 +0000

I have been a Medical Social Worker for 6 years and I enjoy every minute of it. I went into this field because of the gifts God has given me such as encourager, motivator, advocate, and empowerer. I couldn’t find any better field to use my gifts than Social Work, but at the time I expect to be compensate for what I do. I agree with Donna who mentioned that people have different standards when it comes to what you consider making enough money. For instance, a Social Worker whose husband is a physician does not have an issue with how much $ she makes because her husband can very well support her financially. I also think overall were not paid enough for all that we do. We must advocate for ourselves and stop picking on each other. People have the right to voice their opinion and still be respected for their beliefs. Let’s be mindful of others and be more professional. I also think we need to be more involve in professional associations such as NASW and local chapters that involve in changing policies, regulations affecting our profession. I strongly suggest we empower one another and become more supportive of our colleagues and co-workers and also of our profession. We have many good qualities to share with other professions. Let’s count our blessings. We are in a good profession. I also agree that we need to add some business courses to the SW programs which will enhance our profession.

By: Jan, ACSW, LCSW, BCD, MSW-AC

Jan, ACSW, LCSW, BCD, MSW-AC — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:03:30 +0000

This has been such an enlightening thread! I have been a social worker for 26 years, and work for the US Army, in substance abuse counseling. I started out life as a Medical Technologist, the folks who do your lab tests, and their work can have immediate life/death consequences (like cross-matching blood). We were paid less than social workers back then! So I made the decision to go back to graduate school. I work for the Army; what I’d originally planned to do with the MSW was changed because of my experiences will the military, and I can truly say, despite some crazy decisions that have been made by the “Powers that Be,” I love my work, I love my patients, and I’m grateful for being a social worker. Federal Service pays well, as LCSW says above. The benefits are great: I spent over 20 years living in Italy and Germany! Annual leave, sick leave, training. And yes, social workers don’t get the respect we think we deserve, but if that’s why someone went into the field, they need to rethink their reasons. But what I’m seeing in these letters is that we need to advocate for ourselves! We need to learn how to present ourselves as professionals. The army is having great difficulty getting qualified licensed, substance abuse credentialed providers. And even social workers for mental health treatment. Consider checking out usajobs.com, type in 185 for the job series, and either social worker or supervisory social worker for the job title. So if you don’t think you are paid enough, then get involved with NASW at the local, state or national level, or change jobs in social work. The federal government is hiring.

By: LCSW

LCSW — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:47:24 +0000

Let me add further to my comment. The Department of Veterans Affairs also offers it’s Social Workers CEU’s, LCSW Supervision, Annual Leave, Sick Leave etc. You can work various jobs from working with combat Veterans to counseling to outreach to homeless Veterans. They offer many rewarding careers and the ability to travel around the country. I wouldnt change a thing!

By: LCSW

LCSW — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:42:15 +0000

If you have your Masters, work for the VA. they pay their social workers awesome, have great benefits and on an on. I started at 33K in 1999 and now make 88K as a Supervisory Social Worker in a small town in Texas. Make the Change!

By: donna kuzemczyk

donna kuzemczyk — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:38:15 +0000

I’m finding this thread very enlightening and validating…and somewhat, sad. It’s sad to conclude that the profession really has not been able to develop throughout the years to address societal needs, both financially and socially, as well as others. M.B.A.’s input really says it all and puts the state of the profession in modern perspective. Again, the real challenge ahead will be to redesign the whole social work mission to better fit the needs of the cultural and market demands. Would be interested to hear the opinions of NASW, Schools of Social Work administrators, staff, etc. and other governing bodies, about the feelings and concerns that have been addressed here and a realistic (capitalist-focused) analysis of future plans for the profession.

By: M.B.A.

M.B.A. — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:59:40 +0000

I completely agree with JDRY. I have been a medical social worker for 24 years. The person who hired me 20 years ago was a social worker and also had an MBA degree. She told me 20 years ago that she was only in her position of authority because of her MBA, certainly not her MSW. She moved out of town to another hospital and her MSW degree did nothing to assist her in obtaining a similar position of authority. Her MBA degree again is what allowed her to obtain a second job, rather late in her career. I became disgusted after several years of working 4 jobs to make a decent living and decided to obtain my MBA degree. Best decision of my life!!
Employers have responded to me by raising their eyebrows and arranging interviews for me because of my MBA degree, NOT my MSW degree. Their response to the MSW is “oh, that’s nice” but employers are looking for the skills that an MBA program affords for any supervisor level positions.
I have enjoyed the work that I have done however if I were to do it all over again, I would certainly invest my money in an MBA or MHA program instead of an MSW.
When I graduated with my MSW degree, I professed that I was done with school and would never enter another educational program again. I thought it would be “enough”. Over the years, I found that all that I had hoped this MSW would do for me, was not happening. It took some time for me to accept the fact that I needed something more in order to advance my career.
It is difficult to compare one profession against another, however I can confirm that even in a social work administrative position in a healthcare setting, I have three times the education of nurse directors and not only earn significantly less than they do but I have subordinate nursing staff with less education who report to me and earn more than I do as their director, all because my position is still classified as a social work administrator.
It is the image of the profession that causes this disparity in pay to occur. I have the business skills, the degrees and a million credentials at the state and national level behind my name but in order to be paid commensurate with my education and experience, I have had to abandon any position even remotely associated with social work.
People will continue to leave the profession or think twice about entering it with limited advancement, and pay that does not value the skills utilized by someone with a MSW degree.

By: JDRY

JDRY — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:58:21 +0000

To be a Registered Nurse only takes an Associate Degree and two years and they start making $62,000. They are encourage to pass their license exam. In their school they are tested over and over to make sure that they pass it. In Social Work at least the school where I attended states that they were not responsible to prepare the student for the test. I have failed the test numerous times. In graduate school we did more essay papers that did practice test like the one required to do the license test. Yet still I have to pay my student loan, pay my rent , auto insurance. I always wanted to be a Social Worker but if I was younger or just came out of high school I would of preferred to be an Registered Nurse. I wish the School of Social Work in the entire nation. I hope they get the number of students interested in Social Work. in the future. Because first of all you better have a job before going to Social Work School because when you graduate if you haven’t pass the license exam you will not get a Social Work job. The license test, the low salary, the internship, the thesis, the papers that are required the Association of Social Work should advocate for Social Workers. Instead they are just there to make money. The cost for the license test is going up from $175.00 to $260.00. Message to future Social Work students: CONSIDER IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BE A SOCIAL WORKER.

By: E. A. Wahrburg, MSW, LCSW (NC, NY)

E. A. Wahrburg, MSW, LCSW (NC, NY) — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:31:15 +0000

In general, I agree that social work is a low pay, high stress profession. Conversely, I feel that many people that go into the field are motivated by the intrinsic rewards of helping others.
For social workers who are mental health providers, NASW has done a great job in lobbying and helping licensed providers in achieving greater parity.
Thank you to all those in NASW who do an outstanding job in advocacy, lobbying and pushing thru legislation that not only supports social workers, but also supports the clients that we serve!

E. A. Wahrburg, MSW, LCSW (NC, NY)

By: Alternative Perspective

Alternative Perspective — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:40:40 +0000

We live in a capitalist society. While the thinking is flawed (saving money is making money), people who “generate” revenue are paid more than people who do not. College coaches will probably always make 200% more than well-respected scholars because colleges want the money generated by winning football teams. Very unfair considering that the former has 6-8 years less formal education than the latter.

Naming every industry that requires less years of education than ours and insisting that, because they just have an associates or BA degree and we have Masters Degrees, is not only an ineffective strategy to improve our situation, it is also ill informed.

The course work to get a BA in engineering is incredibly difficult and requires hours of intense studying. I had a tutor in college who was an engineering student….he easily studied 3 to 4 times the amount that I did. While he spent less years in higher education than me (he stopped after a BA), his intellectual achievements and ability, in many respects, are far superior to mine.

Invalidating other’s worth stems from a scarcity mentality and the need to make others less than to feel better. We can acknowledge that others deserve a high standard of living while also fighting for better standards for ourselves.

I am not advocating for engineers or other industries (I love being a social worker!), I am just trying to add a rational, alternative perspective to a predominately emotional and anecdotal discussion.

Lastly, it is amazing how some posters are trying to explain away my abundance and beliefs. I am not rich, upper class, a straight white man or even a man. I also have no reason to lie about my salary or that of other social workers…what would that accomplish? **I have trained myself to save my money (even when it was only $1 a week), spend wisely, and ALWAYS work smarter and not harder.**

By: ME

ME — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:38:28 +0000

I don’t like these threads… I am like some of the comments and contributions, such as enhancing your degree with other skills from the business world or obtaining a certificate in nonprofit management, advocating for having a protected title, etc…

I feel threads like this set us up against each other. In some of the posts, even though this is my first time posting, I felt attacked. I feel like it is okay to voice your thoughts and opinions, but don’t do so in a way that demeans or belittles others.

I love social work. Yes, I think we are underpaid, but rather than gripe and complain about advocate for fair treatment in the field. Do not attack one another.

By: Catherine Morrison, ACSW, LISW-S

Catherine Morrison, ACSW, LISW-S — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:41:09 +0000

Right on, Harvey!! It is not being a snob to ask someone if they are a (licensed) social worker—vs. a social services worker—or has a masters in social work or counseling and are not yet licensed—-those are BBBBB—-IIIIIIIIII——GGGGGG differences!!

By: Harvey Norris

Harvey Norris — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 02:07:28 +0000

Florida recently passed a law after ten years of trying that makes the term “Social Worker” a protected Title just like “psychologist”. You must have an MSW or a BSW and/or be licensed. Remember only an MSW or a BSW (And sometimes the PhD in Social Work) are really social workers. Don’t be afraid to ask someone who calls themselves a social worker, “Where did you complete your social work program?”. If they have not completed a social work program, don’t be afraid to follow-up with, “Oh, you are a social service worker, not a social worker. Only BSW’s and MSW are social workers!.” (Not the mention the PhD in Social Work)
PS.. No extra points for stating this in a snobbish manner. It is simply a statement of FACT!

By: Catherine Morrison, ACSW, LISW-S

Catherine Morrison, ACSW, LISW-S — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:29:47 +0000

In response to who can call themselves a PSYCHOTHERAPIST—that is a generic term that no one discipline has a strong hold on—-licensed counselors, social workers and psychologists and psychoanalytically trained psychiatrists can refer to themselves as a psychotherapist. In terms of a psychologist………..only a Ph.D psychologist can call themselves a “psychologist”—-someone with a masters degree in psychology has to refer to their title as a “psychological assistant.”

By: Catherine Morrison, ACSW, LISW-S

Catherine Morrison, ACSW, LISW-S — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:24:51 +0000

There IS CURRENTLY a LAW in the state of Ohio, that DOES allow individuals working for the Cuyahoga County Dept. Of Family and Children’s Services to call themselves “social workers” (although they are actually Social Services Workers—as their business cards reflects) in the line of their daily work as a county employee. I was floored several years ago when I saw an article in the newspaper about an individual working for Cuyahoga County in the above department and the writer of the article called her a “social worker”—-I corresponded via email for a period of time with the Plain Dealer reporter and gave me facts and specific Ohio laws that were struck between politicians and the county to arrive at this agreement…..where was the licensing board through all of this? End result…..the profession became murky and lost integrity…..and yes! the salaries of the county employees could be dummied down with the lack of credentialing and required education in order to be a licensed social worker. I have spoken with several professors at CWRU—about this concern……as have others—–think abouot it—-going to Case for a masters at the tune of almost $30,000 per year—a 2 years program and coming out and making about $30,000 per year—-shy a Social Services Worker at county in Cuyahoga can make much more than that with over time and all—and never have to go for that degree of licensure………now!………THAT is nuts!!!…….and YES!…….”licensed” social work is a wonderful and rewarding field………but the reality is……….our field needs to wake up and advocate for the professionalism of out field.

By: N.B.

N.B. — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:20:30 +0000

That’s interesting about the Psychotherapist thing because I had never heard that before so then I went to look it up. I do understand what you are saying about people feeling like they would get less respect by saying they are a Social Worker, but Social Workers can be Psychotherapist. Here is the link that I found this information: http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/psychotherapist.shtml. The bottom line is the big problem is people calling themselves Social Workers when they do not have a degree in the field. We need to have a law or something to not allow someone to call themselves a Social Worker without the proper credentials. This problem makes it difficult for other people to understand what we do, being respectful of our profession, and the low pay that we receive. I can go on and on because it so many different reasons. Social Workers continue to help our clients/patients/customers/consumer help themselves. Also, we need to do the same for the profession. Social Work is a wonderful profession, but we need to show other people that we know this ourselves by advocating for our profession.

By: Cindi Vietmeier, LCSW

Cindi Vietmeier, LCSW — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:19:43 +0000

I understood from a staff member at NASW that the title of psychotherapist can only be used by Psychologists. It came about when we fought for the law that only degreed social workers could call themself a social worker. I’ll admit – and wonder if others will too – that when I say I am a social worker – I don’t feel like I will get the respect I deserve. It is such a generic title. I am a LCSW that does psychotherapy. Anyone else feel similar?